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Thread: L47/Aurora 4.0L powered Fiero.

  1. #76
    Lifetime User Array Norb O's Avatar
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    I have heard that ARP will make hardware to your specifications, that isn't listed in their catalogs, if you just give them a call and explain what you need.
    - 2001 560i LSx SOLD
    - 2000 FRC

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    They're CNC machined from CroMo, hardened and then threads rolled on. I can't roll threads either. I can't even cut threads with my baby lathe. No change gears.

    The torque specs are dry which is a bit strange. I know there is a significant difference between dry and lubed torque values, but I don't know the coefficient of friction calculations for that or the values for moly lube, for example. Anyway, I have a feeling that there was some oil or coolant on the stud or inside of the nut that I missed. Could be that the wrench wasn't seeing 75 pounds because of the lube, but was really exerting 150+ pounds. Maybe it was weak or something. Who knows; it popped. I'll be much more vigilant about head/stud/nut cleanliness this go around. The guy actually responds really quickly to Facebook messages and completely ignores his e-mail which is strange, but whatever. He said he'd hook me up with a free replacement for the cost of shipping, so that's nice. I just can't stress enough how quickly I need it. We'll see.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Norb O View Post
    wow, that blows. did you clean out the threads? are these blind holes?

    shitty that it happened but better for it to snap on your engine stand than after it's running in the car.
    Yea, they're blind holes in the block. The new threads in the block were blown out with air, sprayed out with brake cleaner twice and then more air. I'm pretty confident they were clean. The studs went in fine, I'd say. Didn't have to realign any of them. They were all perfectly straight.

    End of story, I just fucked one up somehow. Oh well. New babies die every day. Just need to have him get me a replacement as quickly as he possibly can. Three shipping days left in my vacation.

  3. #78
    Sr. User Array maxwell's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like a bad stud but what do I know. heres to hoping he moves quick on one for you.
    MAXWELL
    BLAOWW!!

  4. #79
    Sr. User Array Shifty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newman View Post
    Those are (should be) rolled threads, which I don't really have the capability to make.
    Quote Originally Posted by L47 View Post
    They're CNC machined from CroMo, hardened and then threads rolled on.
    I can have these done, PM me the specs.
    SCT Tuned by Innovative Diesel | 6.0 Bulletproofed | 64mm Sinister Diesel | Banks Intercooler | AirDog | AFe | ATS Transmission | EGR Delete | MBRP |

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shifty View Post
    I can have these done, PM me the specs.
    Oh, word? Alright. I'm going to run over to the shop in a bit anyway, so I'll grab my calipers and I can get you some drawings in a couple of hours. There are four out of twenty that have 'dowel pin' shoulders machined into them that go into the top corners or each bank to help locate the heads. If I were going to do through the trouble, could I have you make me like four of each of two designs? They're not drastically different. I'd just like to have spares lying around just in case. I'm paranoid.

  6. #81
    Sr. User Array Shifty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L47 View Post
    Oh, word? Alright. I'm going to run over to the shop in a bit anyway, so I'll grab my calipers and I can get you some drawings in a couple of hours. There are four out of twenty that have 'dowel pin' shoulders machined into them that go into the top corners or each bank to help locate the heads. If I were going to do through the trouble, could I have you make me like four of each of two designs? They're not drastically different. I'd just like to have spares lying around just in case. I'm paranoid.
    I pm'd you my #
    SCT Tuned by Innovative Diesel | 6.0 Bulletproofed | 64mm Sinister Diesel | Banks Intercooler | AirDog | AFe | ATS Transmission | EGR Delete | MBRP |

  7. #82
    Lifetime User Array 1QIKZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shifty View Post
    I can have these done, PM me the specs.
    Make sure you send them to him US Postal box.
    "My Z is a hybrid vehicle....it runs on gasoline and money."

    1994 300ZXTT, 2003 Mustang GTTT
    The only thing better than a twin turbo car is two twin turbo cars.


  8. #83
    Lifetime User Array ubengineering's Avatar
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    Well if Newman can't do it you're screwed, scrap the whole project lol


    sucks you have to wait though.
    15 Focus SE - 01 S10 4.3L - 96 Viper GTS - 95 Neon R/T

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    Quote Originally Posted by ubengineering View Post
    Well if Newman can't do it you're screwed, scrap the whole project lol

    That was my thought, too. Then Shifty slides in and potentially saves the day. I sent him some chicken scratches I scrawled out earlier and he said he'll get to me tomorrow with a lead time and cost. Fucking perfect. That's how it should be done.

    Anyway, I dicked around with the intake some more.







    At this point, I can probably have the car fully reassembled the same day as stud delivery, or the next if that's late. Doesn't look like this week though. Oh well. I'm used to getting kicked in the nuts with this thing. Hopefully soon, anyway.
    Last edited by L47; 07-01-2017 at 12:48 PM.

  10. #85
    Lifetime User Array Norb O's Avatar
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    Clean up and paint the intake manifold while it's still out. It's a shame to put all that effort into those rails and have them bolted to a dirty plastic manifold
    - 2001 560i LSx SOLD
    - 2000 FRC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norb O View Post
    Clean up and paint the intake manifold while it's still out. It's a shame to put all that effort into those rails and have them bolted to a dirty plastic manifold
    Good point. You're not the first to mention it. I would try hydro dipping it, but I just feel like that would get crazy busy visually. Suppose I could just do a fresh coat of black to clean it up. Maybe shave some of those unnecessary plastic from it, really clean it up. Not doing much else today without that stud.

  12. #87
    Lifetime User Array Norb O's Avatar
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    Anything with a gloss clear coat, regardless of color, will be far easier to clean and will make the engine bay "pop" like you wouldn't believe. Don't need fancy hydrodip.
    Last edited by Norb O; 07-14-2016 at 10:56 AM.
    - 2001 560i LSx SOLD
    - 2000 FRC

  13. #88
    Sr. User Array maxwell's Avatar
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    First thought is black... but red would work, too...
    MAXWELL
    BLAOWW!!

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    Gray

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quattro Krant View Post
    Gray
    I like this idea, actually. For some strange reason. I just think gray would be rad. Either that or black. Definitely not red. Too much red already, with the valve/cam covers and MSD coils.

    I think this is why I like the gray. I saw it on a FAST LS manifold once or twice. Satin gray would be pretty awesome.




    Stud guy got back to me today and told me he would get my 'as fast as possible' package out today. So maybe I'll have that tomorrow or Saturday? Here's to hoping I can salvage the rest of my vacation. Having said that, I'm going to go clean up my intake manifold. Hah.

  16. #91
    Double Wrapped. Cause, you know, well its GM Array ultradriver10000's Avatar
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    Post up some better pictures of the stud, both failed ends. It doesn't really look like it failed torsionally, normally there is a nice smooth twist you can see in the structure. Almost looks like some meteorological failure with those pocket looking spots in it.

    I know rolled threads are stronger, but a precision cut tread on this one guy shouldn't be an issue if it came to it. What is the torque spec on these guys?

    Wife = "Honey please don't drift this corner, we have soup in the car."
    1997 Corvette 418| LSX E36 M3 | 2013 Ram Cummins | 1997 Viper | 3800SC Cavy

  17. #92
    Sr. User Array maxwell's Avatar
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    Yep, nevermind.. Gray.
    MAXWELL
    BLAOWW!!

  18. #93
    GIMME DA COOKIES Array JayS's Avatar
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    That gray with your fuel rails would look great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ultradriver10000 View Post
    Post up some better pictures of the stud, both failed ends. It doesn't really look like it failed torsionally, normally there is a nice smooth twist you can see in the structure. Almost looks like some meteorological failure with those pocket looking spots in it.

    I know rolled threads are stronger, but a precision cut tread on this one guy shouldn't be an issue if it came to it. What is the torque spec on these guys?
    I think the stud started stretching after the 60 pound pass. It never got any tougher to turn and snapped shortly after. I'm fairly certain it was a metallurgical failure, but I can't say for sure since I'm not a metallurgist.

    If you look at these pictures, you can definitely see the stretch. It's like a 30 degree taper down to the failure point from the start of the threads. It looks like there was almost a weak spot. I can't get better pictures with my shitty phone camera, but the threads actually started to pull away form the body. Strange.





    Torque spec is only 75 ft/lb. Nothing crazy. First pass is 30 pounds, second is 60 pounds and a final pass at 75 pounds. A torque wrench only measures rotational force about the fastener, so I can't tell you what the actual clamp load is or what the real-life tension is on the stud once torqued. I've got a good 3/8" click-type Craftsman torque wrench that I've had zero problems with over the last few years, so I don't think there's any issue there. I'm sort of just scratching my head. Must have been a bad stud..?
    Last edited by L47; 07-01-2017 at 12:49 PM.

  20. #95
    Double Wrapped. Cause, you know, well its GM Array ultradriver10000's Avatar
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    Stud was bad, you'll see the threads pull away like that because they are stronger, being work hardened by being rolled.

    I'm surprised they didn't give you a torque angle spec for these. The resultant torque from the factory was about ~105nm or 77 ft lbs FYI.

    I'd call the guy and tell him the stud was bad and ask him to overnight you a replacement.

    The only way the stud could fail like this and have good metallurgical properties is if the friction on the joint was extremely low (like non-existent). Even then I wouldn't expect a bolt of this size to fail at such a low torque.

    Wife = "Honey please don't drift this corner, we have soup in the car."
    1997 Corvette 418| LSX E36 M3 | 2013 Ram Cummins | 1997 Viper | 3800SC Cavy

  21. #96
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    Fair enough. That's definitely what I suspected. At the end of the day, I did the exact same thing to 19 other studs without issue, so I had my suspicions that something was weird with that one. He messaged me thus morning and said my package would go out this morning, but I haven't heard back so who knows? I must have told him ten times to overnight it. Hope he did. Anyway, I cleaned up that intake manifold. Check it.

    Before:



    Halfway shaved, which was a real pain in the dick:



    Much better:



    Great idea, fellas.

    I should get my GPS speedometer tomorrow, so hopefully I can get that in. Here's to hoping my stud shows up tomorrow or Saturday.
    Last edited by L47; 07-01-2017 at 12:50 PM.

  22. #97
    Sr. User Array maxwell's Avatar
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    I'll say a prayer to the car gods for ya. Love this thread. Keep it coming.
    MAXWELL
    BLAOWW!!

  23. #98
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    As a previous owner of a 3800-turbo Fiero, I hope you have some positive vibes coming your way and can get this car on the road. Good stuff!
    -Joe
    -2004 RX8
    -2016 Subaru Impreza WRX STi

  24. #99
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    Thanks, guys. I'm just so close and it keeps kicking me in the nuts. Pretty sure this car is cursed. Hah.

  25. #100
    Lifetime User Array Norb O's Avatar
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    got studs bro?
    - 2001 560i LSx SOLD
    - 2000 FRC

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